Posted by Thanks for new quote that we had not seen prior to
I don’t know if you had usage of Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or not, as it was composed just like the a guide to have People in the us which have colonial forefathers away from Plantagenet origin. He gets as one of his proofs one Joanna try the newest mother out of Gwladus Ddu the reality that Llewelyn provided the brand new characteristics out-of Knighton and you can Norton castles within the Shropshire in order to Ralph Mortimer whenever the guy and you may Gwladus was partnered. It could was indeed unlawful getting Llewelyn to give Joanna’s assets to help you an illegitimate daughter (otherwise individual who was not a baby of Joanna). The fresh new services away from Norton and Knighton remained on the Mortimer family members thereafter. The newest estimate is actually, “Whenever brand new Queen provide Belongings in order to men having an effective lady of his kindred into the frank matrimony, in addition to woman dyeth versus matter, the person on Leaders situation should perhaps not hold it having his lifetime, just like the woman caused the the newest current.” Put simply, the new features would have reverted back again to the top in advance of it might have been supplied to a baby who had been perhaps not Joanna’s.
Hey, Marilyn, I did not gain access to this new Plantaganet Ancestry by Doug Richardson, but did have access to the numerous discussions involving him and you will their concepts along with other genealogists (some getting him, but many and against). In my opinion, once i produced in my personal earlier in the day paper, that just what swings they for me personally(Joanna as the mommy out of Gwladus), is the import of the features you explore to Ralph de- Mortimer upon their ed a couple of its people ‘John’ and you can ‘Joan.’ I cannot imagine that when the Gwladus ended up being this new ded their own children for this reason. In spite of the arguments amongst the eminent genealogists We discuss significantly more than, there clearly was a general opinion one Gwladus Ddu is reasonably identified as the fresh daughter out of Llywelyn ab Iorwerth because of the Joanna, daughter (next legitimised) out-of John, Queen away from The united kingdomt. I would ike to just take this opportunity to agree with Sharon (within the a message if you ask me) you to Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian try from the Tangwystyl and not Joanna, and thus getting bloodstream sis in order to Gruffudd. I legs it partly to the a contemporary checklist utilized in ‘Royal or other Historical emails Illustrative of rule of Henry 111,’ edited because of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. Towards the pages five hundred-503 is the transcript off an original page dated Marshall, Earl regarding Pembroke, so you’re able to King Henry 111. In this page, Marshall covers their siege of your castles from Crum, Kilmore and you may O’Realy. He listings the individuals he found in the palace O’Realy when they surrendered, it incorporated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre et matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, ainsi que mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I am informed that the implies that i have here Gwenllian, child regarding Prince llywelyn, exactly who is apparently entitled ‘aunt away from Gruffudd VictoriyaClub mobile.’ As we know Gruffudd as new illegitimate young buck out of Llywelyn, it is pulled one ‘de patre mais aussi matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and you will Gruffudd was indeed complete blood sibling and brother. Had Gwenllian already been Joanna’s child which Queen Henry’s niece, absolutely Marshall might have said on that truth? It failure out of de- Lacy’s spouse as the king’s niece, is drawn as close particular facts one to Gwenllian was not brand new daughter of your king’s sibling Joanna.
Such services was section of Joanna’s maritagium out of their particular father King John
Ken: Many thanks for one reference to Gwenllian. I am definitely not an expert genealogist, but I actually do an abundance of browse by myself outlines. I do believe a number of the “pros” are extremely jealous and you will enraged each and every almost every other (at the least obviously means in some of all things they post). Discover issues that we’re simply not planning discover with full confidence on the members of brand new MA while they did not keep public record information eg i do now, thus genealogists and historians have to use their best judgment into the sorting some thing out. In reality, vital records try a pretty “new” design – of numerous claims here in the us don’t keep details away from births and you may fatalities till the very early 1900’s. I belong to several lineage societies where I have had to confirm eleven or several years, and you may believe me it is hard. Therefore i extremely take pleasure in the situation out of contrasting MA ancestors. (And sad question is that the info that exist toward MA is of royalty and you will nobility – nothing anyway to your prominent some body).